Let's get back to the breaking news we're following right now. A verdict has been reached in the Rod Blagojevich trial in Chicago. The former governor of Illinois facing 24 counts in a federal corruption trial against him.
Jeff Toobin is with us, our legal analyst; Lisa Bloom, the criminal defense attorney; David Gergen, our senior political analyst, is with us, as well -- I guess, David, the most damning statement that he was heard making on this audiotape that federal prosecutors had was when he was thinking about who would succeed Barack Obama as the Illinois senator. At one point, he's recorded by federal agents as young, quote: "I've got this thing and it's (EXPLETIVE LANGUAGE) golden. I'm just not giving it up for (EXPLETIVE LANGUAGE) nothing."
And so the argument is, is that just boasting that he, as governor of Illinois, could name the successor to Barack Obama or was he holding it out for some sort of financial reward, who would get that seat?
DAVID GERGEN, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST, FORMER PRESIDENTIAL ADVISER: That's a very good question, Wolf. And I don't think we'll know the answer until they come out with this verdict. But, clearly, for much of the public, at the heart of this case is a question of whether he was trying to sell that seat and make money out of it. We know he didn't get the money, apparently. But -- but he -- you know, there is certainly a heavy suggestion here he was trying to sell it. Whether they find that convincing or not, we don't know.
But, you know, Wolf, the fact that they had 24 counts and they came back two days ago and said we could only reach agreement on two counts in 12 days of -- of deliberation -- they said 11 counts we can't agree on at all and we've got 11 counts we haven't considered on -- on wire fraud. That suggests this may be a complex verdict. And we might not be at the end. Jeffrey could tell us. But I -- I -- there is a possibility that we could have a retrial on some of these counts before it's over. God forbid, but we might.
BLITZER: We certainly could.
Jeffrey Toobin is still here, too. And Lisa Bloom is, as well.
The quote from the judge, Jeffrey, and interpret this. Explain what this might mean, because it's a little cryptic. The judge saying: "We have reached a verdict and I am assuming it's a partial verdict." -- all right, Jeff, you know this kind of stuff.
When the judge says that, what does he mean? TOOBIN: It means that the jury has been able to reach a verdict on some of the 24 counts, but not the others. Presumably, that will mean if the judge decides to accept the verdict, a partial verdict -- sometimes judges just say, look, I'm not accepting a partial verdict, go back to work, try to reach a complete verdict.
But if he accepts a partial verdict, we'll see whether he's convicted or acquitted on those counts.
But on the remaining counts, the judge will presumably declare a mistrial, which means the government will then have to make the decision, do we retry him?
Do we think these -- this case is strong enough with just these remaining counts to -- to go forward again?
That's always a tough call for the government. A lot of it depends on what the verdict was on the counts where there was a verdict. But as David said, a -- a mistrial means no -- no verdict.
BLITZER: Lisa Bloom, do you ex -- do you suspect Patrick Fitzgerald, the U.S. attorney in Chicago, would go through this once again if there's no verdict on most of these counts, he would have another trial?
BLOOM: I -- I do, because I think he is devoted to this case and believes in this case. And he has from the very beginning. But as Jeffrey says, it's going to depend on what the outcome is. If, for example, he gets acquitted on a couple of charges and then it's a mistrial as to the rest, that is, the jury couldn't reach an agreement as to the rest, then he's going to have some evaluating to do. If he can find out what the juror split was on the counts that there may be a mistrial on, that will also be instructed. If it's 11-1 for acquittal, then he may make a decision to not go forward.
But in general, I do think that Patrick Fitzgerald is committed to this case, that he believes in this case and that he will retry if there are mistrials on any of the counts.
BLITZER: We're going to ask Lisa Bloom, Jeff Toobin and David Gergen stand by. We're awaiting the announcement -- the verdict in the Rod Blagojevich trial in Chicago. They reached a verdict -- at least a partial verdict on some of these 24 counts.
Our special coverage of the breaking news right here in THE SITUATION ROOM will continue after this.
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ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.
BLITZER: A verdict has been reached in the Rod Blagojevich trial in Chicago. He's facing 24 counts -- a federal corruption trial, among other things, accused of wanting to sell the U.S. Senate seat of Barack Obama once he was elected president of the United States. We assume that there's been a verdict on some of the charges, not necessarily all of them. That's the indication we're getting from the judge.
Our producer in Chicago has been listening in, seeing what's going on. They should be assembling in the courtroom fairly soon and we will hear from the jury. And we'll hear from the judge exactly what is going on.
Stand by. Much more on this coming up.
Jeffrey Toobin, our senior legal analyst, is with us, as well -- Jeffrey, for viewers just tuning in right now, set the stage for us on what is going on, because it's been 14 days that this jury has been deliberating.
TOOBIN: Well, the heart of this case is that the government, the federal government, the U.S. attorney, Patrick Fitzgerald, has charged former Governor Rod Blagojevich with attempting to sell his office for various -- various things he had to sell. He was trying to sell Barack Obama's Senate seat. He was trying to sell approval for a hospital. He was trying to sell government contracts for highway concessions.
The idea was, is that he was simply taking campaign contributions or money directly or planning to do so in return for these things he controlled as governor.
Now, part of the problem of the case, from the government's perspective is, though he talked a great deal about selling these things, selling Obama's Senate seat, he didn't actually follow through. They brought the case down. They arrested him before these plans could come to fruition.
One of the theories of why the jury has been out so long is that the jury is having a hard time with the case that involves talk about selling his office, but no completed acts of sale, as it were.
BLITZER: And so that then might not necessarily be enough to convict.
We're told that the judge has started reading some of these verdicts in this federal courtroom. No cameras are allowed inside. So we should be getting word fairly soon on at least some of the initial decisions on these 24 counts. It will take a while for them to go through all 24.
David Gergen is with us.
Lisa Bloom is with us, as well.
We're awaiting the word. We should get it very soon -- David Gergen, as we await the initial verdict on some of these counts, this case has taken on an enormous political significance because the president of the United States, at least indirectly, was involved. His Senate seat was up for grabs and he's from Chicago, raising all sorts of questions about allegations of -- of political corruption in Chicago.
GERGEN: Well, it -- it certainly has deepened the sense that there's way -- much more corruption in Illinois than there should be. I think the president was spared because he and his -- and his men and women in the White House were not called to have to testify. That would have been, as you can imagine, would have amplified that sense a lot.
But if he's found guilty today, there's going to be, I think, a widespread feeling in the public that there really is something terribly wrong that's been going on in that state. And I don't think it helps President Obama.
It also has really soured, of course, Illinois voters on Democrats, so that it's given the Republicans a fighting chance to take back Illinois.
BLITZER: Lisa Bloom, as we await the -- the word, you're convinced no matter what happens on these charges, if they haven't reached a verdict on some of the charges, a hung jury, that the -- the U.S. attorney, Patrick Fitzgerald, will go forward and seek a new trial?
BLOOM: Well, I think he will, again, depending on the outcome. If Blagojevich is acquitted on a lot of the top charges and there's a hung jury on the others and the hung jury ends up being split more in Blagojevich's favor than the government's favor, then Patrick Fitzgerald will have a tough decision to make. I also want to point out and to underscore what Jeffrey Toobin has been saying. This case is primarily about words and absolutely words can be illegal if he was plotting to sell the Senate seat and plotting other acts of alleged graft. On the other hand none of it seems to be brought to fruition. There was no money changed hands. One might wonder why the U.S. attorney who was tape recording most of the conversation that Blagojevich was having at the end didn't wait for example for the Senate seat to be sold. At that point he would have two wrongdoers. He would have the buyer and the seller and he would have money changing hands which certainly enhanced the case and made it a much stronger case. The argument on either side of that is we don't want a Senate seat to be told. That's a wrong and harm to our political process that we have to stop it before it happens but nevertheless, if it had happened it would have been a stronger case. Blagojevich's defense is simply yes I was engaging in political horse trading which is perfectly legal although ...
BLITZER: Lisa, I'm going interrupt for a second because we're just getting word from our producer on the scene he has been found guilty on one of these 24 counts, count 24 which is false statements. Jeffrey Toobin, I know you are there as well. The charge, count 24, which he's been convicted on is that Rod Blagojevich allegedly lied to the FBI during a March 16th, 2005 meeting willfully and knowingly making false statements that he tried to maintain a firewall between politics and government. That he does not track or want to know who contributes to him or how much they are contributing to him. All right. So we've just received word that he's convicted, a guilty verdict on count 24, false statements. Jeffrey Toobin? TOOBIN: That's a felony. It's a very well known much prosecuted crime called Section 1001. It is what Martha Stewart was convicted of. It's a five-year maximum prison sentence. Most people tend not to get nearly that much for it. The real big risk to Blagojevich here is the racketeering counts.
BLITZER: Let me interrupt you on that point. Because we are now told that the jury has been able to reach a verdict on that count, count 24. That's the only count they have been able to reach a verdict on. The 23 other counts they have not been able to reach a verdict on, Jeffrey, including racketeering, wire fraud, attempted extortion, bribery, conspiracy, extortion conspiracy, attempted extortion, all of these other 23 counts we are now told no verdict. The jury has been deadlocked on those 23 counts. They reached a verdict on one count making false statements to federal authorities. Jeffrey, what do you make of that?
TOOBIN: Well I guess the first question I have is has the judge dismissed the jury? Or has he sent them back to deliberate more on those other counts?
BLITZER: We don't know the answer to that yet. We'll know that fairly soon.
TOOBIN: OK. Because that makes a big difference. If this is it, this is a pretty big victory for Rod Blagojevich I would say. He was not convicted on 23 of the 24 counts. Now, the government may retry him. It is true that the government can claim that Blagojevich is now a convicted felon because if you're guilty of making a false statement to an FBI agent, that makes you a convicted felon. Given the magnitude of these crimes and claims of racketeering, extortion and crimes that get people 10 to 20 years in prison a single count of making a false statement to an FBI agent is no great victory for the government.
BLITZER: It would be an embarrassment for Patrick Fitzgerald, the U.S. attorney, given the hype that's gone into this trial, Jeffrey.
TOOBIN: I think you would have to say that. It may be they will retry him and have a chance to convict him of the more serious crimes but if this case ends with a mistrial on 23 counts and a conviction on one false statement count even though Rod Blagojevich is now a convicted felon, he'll look to this and portray it as a victory.
BLITZER: Let me get Lisa Bloom. You're a good criminal defense attorney. What do you make if there's a mistrial on 23 counts of most of the serious counts? There's a conviction on count 24 making a false statement to an FBI agent. This would be seen, I assume you agree with Jeffrey, as a big victory for Rod Blagojevich.
BLOOM: If I am Rod Blagojevich's criminal defense attorney, we're popping champagne bottles tonight. If there's a mistrial on 23 counts and a guilty as to only one count, that is a huge victory for the defense. For the defense generally anything short of a conviction is a victory. Yes, you want an acquittal. Acquittals are hard to get. Hung jury is the next best thing because he retains his freedom subject to his sentencing on the 24th count which I suspect will be relatively small. Martha Stewart, as Jeffrey points out, was convicted of that. She got five months in prison. Five months home confinement. That's a relatively short sentence. This is an enormous win for Blagojevich make no mistake about that.
BLITZER: A hung jury apparently on 23 counts, conviction on count 24 making a false statement to the FBI back on March 16th, 2005 willfully and knowingly making false statements that he tried to maintain a firewall between politics and government. He does not track or want to know who contributes to him or how much they are contributing to him. What's your reaction to this, David Gergen?
GERGEN: Different from my colleagues on this. We have to wait and see as Jeffrey said whether the judge orders them back into deliberations. Just a couple days ago they said they reached agreement on two counts. I don't understand what happened to the second one. I want to make a distinction that it's a legal victory for Rod Blagojevich but in the court of public opinion, he's a loser in this case. No way he comes out of this with the public thinking he's anything other than a sleazebag that he wanted to sell it. He's a big talker, blow hard and all the rest but this is not one in which he'll come out smelling like a rose at all with public opinion.
BLITZER: Even though, David, he was not convicted of racketeering, wire fraud, attempted extortion, bribery, conspiracy, those are much more serious charges than making a false statement to an FBI agent.
GERGEN: Well, so far as we know he's not been acquitted on those counts. The jury is hung up on those counts. I think the totality of what the public has heard, comments, tapes, everything else, I think has really put a blotch over his reputation that is not going to be easily removed. He goes down on one count. I can understand popping champagne corks in terms of him not going to jail very long but in terms of his public reputation, that I think has been hugely damaged.
BLITZER: Just want to be precise. The jury has been able to reach a verdict on one count. Count number 24 making false statements to the FBI. They have not been able to reach verdicts on 23 other counts. That doesn't necessarily mean acquitted. It doesn't mean anything other than they haven't reached a verdict and we're waiting to see if the judge will send them back to continue deliberations or dismiss this jury and it will be up to the U.S. attorney Patrick Fitzgerald to decide on whether to retry Rod Blagojevich on all or some of these other counts. Roland Martin, our CNN analyst, is also watching and listening to what's going on. You live in Chicago. You have been following this case. If in fact they can only convict him on one count, couldn't convict him on the other 23, what do you think?
ROLAND MARTIN, CNN ANALYST: Former Governor Rod Blagojevich will basically treat this as if it's a huge victory. He'll probably do a John Gotti like dance around Chicago. I understand the point that David is making but this is a guy that hasn't cared about his reputation. Remember, he was thrown out of office by the legislature, the general assembly in Illinois. He's gone on a reality show. He's hosted a radio show on a station there in Chicago. He tried to be on a second reality show. He doesn't care. He will treat this like a victory. I'm sure his attorneys will. They might say, Rod, tamper down a bit because they might try you again.
BLITZER: On that point -- hold on a second. We're now getting word from our producer on the scene in the courtroom in Chicago. The government has just announced they will retry Rod Blagojevich on at least some if not all of these other counts, the counts where the jury could not reach a decision so Patrick Fitzgerald, the U.S. attorney in Chicago, is going forward making it clear he wants another trial.
MARTIN: Think about it. From Sam Adam Jr., one of his attorneys, look, the government came at these guys with audiotapes. They have testimony of former aides. They had all kinds of stuff in there. His brother was on trial. They talked about possibly putting Blagojevich himself, former governor, on the stand. They only were able to convict him on one of these counts giving a false statement to a federal official? Trust me. The defense will likely treat this as saying I told you. They don't have enough. They didn't have enough. This guy simply talked a bunch of smack. They've said it all along. They probably will do some kind of happy dance saying you didn't get us.
BLITZER: Jeffrey Toobin, our senior legal analyst, is watching as well and trying to appreciate what's going on like all of us. They just announced they'll retry Rod Blagojevich on at least some if not all of these other 23 counts. The jury hung, hung on those 23 counts convicting him on one count making false statements to the FBI. Are you surprised?
TOOBIN: Not really given the investment in time, money, reputation, in this case, the government couldn't very well walk away from it when it had the chance. When it now still has the chance of getting a conviction. But I have to say, I agree with Roland that the Blagojevich team is going to do a happy dance about this. Now, I think David is also right that Blagojevich's public career is over. He's not a -- he's not looking to be running for office against. He's a fringe figure. The only issue is Blagojevich's life right now is whether he goes to prison or whether he doesn't. He's a lot farther from prison this afternoon than he was this morning.
BLITZER: Well, I think that as far as his political career is concerned, he was impeached by the Illinois legislature and made it clear he wouldn't be serving in Illinois. As far as other careers including reality TV or whatever, I suspect he has a huge future ahead of him. That's just my suspicion. Let me ask Lisa Bloom what she suspects happens next now that the government is making it clear as you predicted it would that it will retry him on at least some if not all of these other counts.
BLOOM: Well, we know that a retrial tends to favor the prosecution, Wolf. That's because the prosecution now has all of the information that they obtained in the first trial. They got all of the information about how the defense is going to proceed and what their theories will be. They heard the defense closing argument. They saw the defense cross examination of their witnesses so they have a wealth of information now going into the second trial that they didn't have in the first trial. So I would imagine in the weeks and months that precede the retrial, they'll be pouring over all of that streamlining their case and try to give the next jury the benefit of all of that knowledge and present a much stronger case. That would be the prosecution's goal.
BLITZER: I assume in the meantime he'll be out of jail. He's not going to jail even though he was convicted on one count of making false statements to the FBI. They won't throw him in jail on that one count while awaiting a new trial. Is that right?
BLOOM: That's up to the judge. The judge could go ahead and sentence him on the one count he's been convicted of and he could go to prison pending the outcome of -- the pending the second trial coming around. That's up to the judge. His defense attorneys will argue he shouldn't be that he should be out on bail and he is not a flight risk and he's not going to leave. He's present during the trial. He's highly recognizable. He's shown no sign he would be a flight risk. That will be up to the judge to decide.
BLITZER: David Gergen, is there an issue as far as the U.S. government, the federal government is concerned, when they go forward with another trial right now that this is going cost the U.S. taxpayers a lot of money and another trial against Blagojevich and they had a chance and didn't succeed on 23 of the 24 counts, is that at all a political factor in a U.S. attorney's decision making process?
GERGEN: It is a factor but it's a modest one. I would think far more and others can speak to this would be what the outcome was with the jury. You know, if the jury were heavily on Blagojevich's side on each one of these other counts and the prosecutor goes ahead and puts him through another grilling, there may be a bullying issue for the government. It has to be very careful about and it has to make sure that it's not seen as sort of being heavy handed. I think I continue to believe for a lot of the public the unhappiness out of this is we can't get this fellow off the stage. We're going to have to live with him apparently on our television sets for a long time to come.
BLITZER: All right. I want everyone to stand by. The breaking news this hour, a verdict was reached on one count making a false statement to the FBI, a guilty verdict for the former governor of Illinois, Rod Blagojevich. On the 23 other counts, very significant charges of racketeering, wire fraud, extortion, bribery, attempted bribery, no verdict. No decision. Hung jury. But the government, the U.S. attorney Patrick Fitzgerald making it clear he wants to go ahead and have another trial. Conviction on one. It's a felony charge, making a false statement to the FBI. No verdict on 23 other counts. Our coverage will continue right after this.
WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: The breaking news this hour comes from Chicago, a federal courthouse in Chicago, where Rod Blagojevich, the former governor of Illinois, was found guilty of one count, making false statements to the FBI. That's a felony, potentially enabling the government to send him to jail for five years.
But on 23 other counts, there was a deadlock, a hung jury, the jurors unable to reach a decision on some very, very serious charges against Rod Blagojevich, the prosecution, the federal government saying they will go for a retrial, another trial, against the former governor of Illinois on these other 23 counts, a dramatic development in Chicago, mixed results for Rod Blagojevich, unable, the federal government, to convict him on 23 counts, but they were able to convict him on a count saying that he made false statements to the FBI.
David Gergen is with us, Lisa Bloom, the criminal defense attorney, Jeff Toobin, our senior legal analyst.
Let me start with you, Jeff. Set the scene for us. Give us some perspective on what happens now.
JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: Well, the government has announced that, of the 23 counts where the jury failed to reach a verdict, they will retry him.
So, this, I think you have to say, was a definite victory for Rod Blagojevich. It may be only a temporary victory. If he gets convicted at the end of the day of racketeering, of extortion, he could still be going to prison for a very long time.
But in a world, especially in federal court, where the government wins convictions in the vast, vast majority of cases, to have a case where 23 of the 24 counts do not result in a conviction, I think the only fair analysis of that is that this is a victory for Rod Blagojevich.
BLITZER: It must be, David Gergen, a huge disappointment for Patrick Fitzgerald, the U.S. attorney in Chicago, and his prosecutors. They worked really hard on all of these other charge. They were unable to convince the jurors to issue a guilty verdict.
DAVID GERGEN, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: I am sure it is a big disappointment they didn't get that far. And they must be curious about what happened to that second count, that the jury had sent word out that they had reached agreement on two counts, as we just heard from Andy Shaw, and they only come back with one. So I am sure that the prosecutors are going to want to look at that.
I think they're going to also want to know -- and we are going to hear leaked out of this -- how the jurors did come down on these, the 23 -- 11-1, 10-2? Where was it? That's going to make a big difference I think on how the public reacts to this.
But we cannot walk away from this. Even though, yes, Rod Blagojevich beat the charges on 23, he is still a convicted felon.
BLITZER: He is a convicted felon and he potentially could serve five years in prison, convicted of making false statements to the FBI, count number 24.
Let me read that count to you. Blagojevich allegedly lied to the FBI during a March 16, 2005, meeting, willfully and knowingly making false statements that he tried to maintain a firewall between politics and government, that he does not track or want to know who contributes to him or how much they are contributing to him, guilty on that count, no decision, hung jury on 23 other counts, including charges, serious charges, racketeering, wire fraud, attempted extortion, bribery, attempted extortion and conspiracy.
All of these charges, the jurors were unable to reach a decision on.
Let's bring in our political analysts, Roland Martin, Mary Matalin. They're both here.
Roland, first to you. How surprised were you by this since you live in Chicago and you have been watching this trial very closely?
ROLAND MARTIN, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Well, it has been startling because this trial has gone on for only about 30 days.
Typically, if you look at the trial of former Governor George Ryan, who was convicted of taking money from one of his campaign donors, that trial went on for months, and so this thing was sort of on speed dial, if you will.
Then all of the sudden, when we saw the jury, you know, day after day not reaching a decision, it was sort of like, in Chicago, hey, what in the world is going on? Now they come back, only convict him on one count, hung on 23. It also begs -- you know, look, the FBI is going to be in for some tough questioning as well, because, remember, they arrested Rod Blagojevich and it was stated before a deal actually commenced.
They felt that something was about to happen as it related to the U.S. Senate seat of former Senator Barack Obama in terms of Blagojevich making that appointment. And don't be surprised. If they are unable to send him to prison beyond this one count, they might say, wait a minute, did you move too early before something happened, because again they have tapes and everything else, but if they were unable to convict him with even those tapes, what does that actually mean?
BLITZER: Mary Matalin is with us as well.
Mary, I want to get your reaction. We are just getting a statement, by the way, from Congressman Jesse Jackson Jr. And he says this reacting to the verdict. "Unfortunately, the pain and embarrassment that this whole situation has caused our great state will not come to a complete close today. As for me, I repeat what I have said all along. My interest in the Senate seat was based on years of public service, not some improper scheme with Blagojevich or anyone else. I look forward to continuing to work hard on behalf of the people of the 2nd Congressional District of Illinois."
He got his name dragged into this, as you will remember. Mary, correct me if I'm wrong. Aren't you from Chicago originally as well?
MARY MATALIN, CNN POLITICAL CONTRIBUTOR: I am. And my brother is still there. I still have family there.
BLITZER: So you know what is going on in Chicago. You have watched this. Were you surprised that he was convicted on only one of these 24 counts, the one count, the conviction, on making false statements to the FBI?
MATALIN: Yes. Well, given what the government put out there, how much time, how many resources, all these big brains, the heavy hand of the government in there, it is shocking.
Everyone is talking about Blagojevich's victory. His victory will be dependent on what he does with this. And he is right, my colleague there is right that he wants to be a reality TV star, so this is victory for him, but it's a huge defeat for the government.
They did not make their case, whether it was hung or a mistrial, on 23 counts. They have far more resources, far greater brain power, every tool available to them, and they lost on 23 counts. And whoever made this point earlier, I think very smart David Gergen made, the government has to be careful on appearing to be heavy-handed in this case.
The jury has spoken.
BLITZER: You know this U.S. attorney, Patrick Fitzgerald, Mary Matalin. You know him in the sense that he is the same U.S. attorney who was involved in the Valerie Plame, the outing of the CIA and the eventual -- the conviction of Dick Cheney, the former vice president's chief of staff.
You know how determined Patrick Fitzgerald, how dogged he can be.
MATALIN: And I also know this from 30 years in Washington. As one of the famous lawyers there said, you can indict a ham sandwich if you want. But when the entire weight of the government comes down on you and they are squeezing you and they want somebody, it is a terrifying, a terrifying experience. Their heavy-handedness would be about the only thing that could make a sympathetic character out of Blagojevich, who is otherwise a clown. But he is the kind of political clown that people think all politicians -- who committed the crime that people think all politicians commit, which is he is horse trading. That is not a crime. That is just their business is what people think.
I'm not condoning him. I'm not defending him. I am just saying it really disturbs people when the government can bring that kind of heavy-handedness to bear on a private citizen.
BLITZER: Are you in agreement with Mary, Roland?
MARTIN: Well, I think she is absolutely right in terms of what the perception is, because we see this every single day.
You know, we hear stories, people who have worked on Capitol Hill, in state legislatures, in city halls all across the country where folks sit here and say, hey, I will support your bill, you support my bill.
There is an expectation that people out there who support somebody running for office likely will be appointed to these various positions. People who give money to people who are running for president all of a sudden end up being ambassadors to various countries.
That is something that didn't happen just by happenstance. It is an expectation. But, also, the defense of Blagojevich was very interesting. They focused from the outset of here is a guy who runs his mouth, comes up with all kinds of crazy stuff, but nothing ever came out of this.
I think that is going to be a difficult issue once we begin to hear how the jury came down as to whether or not they actually thought he went through on a lot of the schemes. They made it seem like it is just a bunch of talk from a madman and he has used that to create himself this whole persona beyond political office of being a reality star.
BLITZER: Guys, stand by. I want to bring in David Gergen back into this conversation.
Top officials from the Obama administration, David, they did not have to go to Chicago and testify, including the White House chief of staff, Rahm Emanuel, or Valerie Jarrett, a senior adviser to the president of the United States, David.
But if there is a retrial -- and Patrick Fitzgerald, the U.S. attorney, says there will be a retrial on these 23 other counts -- they may not necessarily be spared the next time around.
GERGEN: They could easily be called. And I think that is what the lawyer for Robert Blagojevich was trying to say. He doesn't know which way this is going to break. But I think it is in particular on that, that Fitzgerald is going to have some very compelling reasons why he would suddenly now bring somebody from the White House in on the second time around, because it goes to this question of heavy-handedness. He has to be -- I think it is very, very important what happens in the next day or two when we learn whether those jurors were basically a majority of them came down on Blagojevich's side on each one of these counts or whether the majority of them actually thought he was guilty and a minority held out against it.
That is going to make a big difference in how we interpret this retrial and how heavy-handed we think the government is and, by the way, how guilty we believe Blagojevich may be.
BLITZER: Dramatic developments in Chicago on this day. Guys, thank you very much.
We will continue to get reaction. If Rod Blagojevich or his attorneys show up at the microphone, we will go there live. We will hear what they are saying. We will hear what Patrick Fitzgerald, the U.S. attorney in Chicago, might say. Let's see if he comes to the microphones outside the Chicago federal courthouse.
We will stay on top of this story. We will share with you all the information coming in.
Transcript from CNN"s The Situation Room aired August 17,2010