Transcript from CNN's Rick's List aired April 9, 2010
LEMON: The president says that he's going to move quickly to nominate a replacement for the justice.
And I want to say that we're getting some responses in from -- from other justices as well. I'm going to give that to you in just a little bit. But the president said he's going to move pretty quickly. Here's what the president said he is looking for.
BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: And while we cannot replace Justice Stevens' experience or wisdom, I will seek someone in the coming weeks with similar qualities -- an independent mind, a record of excellence and integrity, a fierce dedication to the rule of law, and a keen understanding of how the law affects the daily lives of the American people. It will also be someone who, like Justice Stevens, knows that in a democracy, powerful interests must not be allowed to drown out the voices of ordinary citizens.
LEMON: All right, so, listen, President Obama says he hopes to have a new justice in place before the Supreme Court's next term starts in October.
And CNN senior political analyst David Gergen was an adviser to four presidents, including President Ford, who put Justice Stevens on the court.
Good to see you.
Before I -- I want you to listen to this, because this is coming from some of the other justices, David, statements from the Supreme Court regarding Justice John Paul Stevens' retirement.
Chief Justice John G. Roberts -- I'm not going to read all of it -- I just want you to hear a little bit -- says: "Associate Justice John Paul Stevens has earned the gratitude and admiration of the American people for nearly 40 years with his distinguished service."
Antonin Scalia says; "Stevens leaves behind a distinguished career of service on the federal bench," and then on and on from Kennedy -- very well-respected.
And when it all boils down, you were there, 1974, with Nixon when he was appointed. They stick together. And whatever fights or arguing they have when they are trying to work things out, when something like this happens, they -- they stick together.
DAVID GERGEN, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, there's definitely a collegiality of the court.
I had the opportunity to visit three justices just a couple of weeks ago with students, and who had differing perspectives. And I think the students were quite taken by how respectful they were of each other. They seem to have personal relationships that extended well beyond what you normally see in politics.
But there clearly are groupings. And John Paul Stevens was very clearly the leader of the progressive bloc on the court, four members of the court. And now that President Obama's going to have this -- you know, this doesn't happen often. The president has two choices in his first term. He will be able to keep that bloc intact. And I think, contrary to some speculation that he will move to the middle, I think we will very -- he will find someone who's very firmly within that bloc. And it -- it -- we will continue to have a 4-4, with Justice Kennedy as a swing.
LEMON: Well, you mentioned President Obama is going to have a second chance to do this, a second appointment.
So, considering the political climate, though, David, after the health care reform debate, will the president have a difficult time getting this done by October? What's the difficulty level here?
GERGEN: I think, if he moves fairly quickly -- and it is easier the second time around, as you pointed out, because he's -- after all, there at least two people on his short list that he's already interviewed once. One Elena Kagan, is his own solicitor general. He knows Diane Wood from Chicago. He was formerly on the faculty with her at the University of Chicago.
And there's another justice -- or another judge in Merrick Garland in Chicago -- in Washington who is thought to be the third person on the obvious list. Now, there's an unobvious list he will want to review as well.
But, given that, Don, I mean, he will move fairly quickly. And he should be able -- the nominee has to get a lot of paperwork in front of the -- in front of the Senate. There will be a lot of scrutiny of that. But they should be able to have hearings and have that place -- person in place by October.
And think of it this way, Don. He's going to have a lot more votes in the Democratic column this year than he's likely to have next year. So, it's a good -- you know, he's not only having two in the first year, but two when he's at his strongest.
LEMON: OK. I want -- it's funny you say solicitor general, because I want you to hold that thought.
Joining us now by phone is Robert Bork. He's a former Supreme Court justice nominee and a former solicitor general -- general -- under Richard Nixon. Gerald Ford as well, he served.
Thank you for joining us. Your old friend, I'm sure, David Gergen, is here.
What -- this process that's going to happen now, what's the significance of this for the president of the United States and really for the American people, Mr. Bork?
ROBERT BORK, FORMER SUPREME COURT NOMINEE: Well, I think this one is a relatively neutral process, in the sense that the president has the votes to get almost anybody through, anybody at least respectable through. And it's not going to change much, except, instead of an older liberal, you're going to have a younger liberal. That's about it.
(LAUGHTER)
LEMON: And when it comes to -- we said that you were a nominee. What are the -- we have been looking at short lists here, Mr. Bork. What are these people, these folks going through now? Is it a tough process to sort of have your life and your career examined, you know, from the beginning all the way up until the point wherever you are when you are nominated for this?
BORK: Yes, but I didn't have that problem. They checked me out beforehand. And the FBI went over my background. And there was nothing there. So, it was a relatively simple process.
LEMON: You know what?
David Gergen, he brings up a good point here, because he said, you know, he didn't have to deal with that. It seems that the vetting process and, you know, the -- the hearings, it's much more stringent now, because the president's really having some trouble even getting appointees into place, you know, because of the vetting process.
GERGEN: Well, in truth, this whole process changed when Bob Bork was nominated and was treated so unfairly, and indeed viciously at times.
And it set off a chain reaction. And the -- the -- the process of screening that goes on, on Capitol Hill, the scrutiny, and sometimes the unfairness of it, I think, has -- has been really a terribly unfortunate, tragic, and, in Bob Bork's case, extremely unfair legacy over the last several years.
The Sotomayor hearings, I think, were fairer than we have seen. They were not as -- and I would imagine -- I think, to go to Bob Bork's point, this is like -- I think, unless he nominates someone who is -- who's sort of really way off to the left, I would think that there's not going to be a -- there will be a fight, but it won't be a donnybrook.
LEMON: I want Mr. Bork to respond to that.
What do you have to say, what David Gergen just said about the vetting process and how you changed that? Do you agree with that?
BORK: Oh, yes, the -- well, not the vetting process, but the process of the confirmation, which changed completely and caught me by surprise, because it was much more vicious than it ever had been before.
LEMON: You said -- I'm sorry. I missed the last part. You said it was much more vicious?
BORK: Than it ever had been before.
And I think that started a round of extreme partisanship, because the Republicans were furious at what the Democrats had done. And the Democrats were determined to stop the court from changing, so that you had a level of partisanship and a level of viciousness never seen before in the Supreme Court nominations. LEMON: Mr. Bork, how -- are you paying -- how much attention are you paying to the court now? Are you up on the court?
BORK: No, I am not. I'm -- I'm writing things.
LEMON: Yes.
BORK: To tell you the truth, I have written about all I want to write about the court itself.
(LAUGHTER)
LEMON: Yes, because I thought -- David, are you still there?
GERGEN: I am.
LEMON: So, David...
GERGEN: I -- I -- we should be very appreciative of the fact that Bob Bork is here joining us.
LEMON: Yes. And that's why we're talking to him. This is a moment here.
We're going to talk to Bob Bork a little bit longer, but I want to -- the reason I asked him if he -- how familiar he is with the court right now is because, if you had to -- if you had to guess, or just looking at it logically, David Gergen, who do you think might be the next to go here, if at all, soon?
GERGEN: Well, you know, one always worries about the health of justices. And, of course, Justice Ginsburg has been a subject of some speculation. I hope, for her sake, that she can stay as long as she wishes and that health does not become an issue.
But I must say, I don't see any indications that there's anyone in the conservative bloc who is anywhere close to retirement.
So, it appears -- and I don't think Justice Kennedy, I mean, he seems to be very hale and hearty. I was just with him recently. And I -- I think the president may have one more choice in Justice Ginsburg, but, otherwise, it would come as a surprise whether this may -- goes -- I would like to ask Bob Bork a question, an interesting question that's come up.
It's very much a minor issue, I think, but some people are talking about, does it -- does the religious composition of the court make any difference, Justice Bork, because the -- given the -- I think that John Paul Stevens is the last Protestant on the court.
And does that make any difference at all, or should we sort of discount that? I don't think it does, but I'm just curious of whether...
LEMON: It's six Catholic people on the court, two -- and two people of Jewish faith. BORK: Yes.
No, I haven't heard much comment about it, and not the way -- in the old days, there was a Catholic seat and a Jewish seat and so forth. That's gone. I think -- I suppose, if you have had an overwhelming number of one religious denomination, there would be some resistance. But it's well within the reasonable bounds now. And I don't think it's going to make any difference at all.
LEMON: As David said, we are -- David, it's quite an honor to have Mr. Bork here joining us on CNN.
So, I'm going to -- I will give you the last question here.
Any -- do you have any pearls of wisdom, any advice for the people who may be on the short list, for the people who may be in opposition to who the president is going to appoint, or even to the president of the United States himself in this process?
BORK: To whom is that question addressed?
GERGEN: Judge Bork, I think that's to you.
LEMON: That's to you. That's to you, Mr. Bork.
BORK: Do I have any idea who's on the short list?
LEMON: No. Do you have any -- do you have any advice for anyone in this process, including the president, the opposition, or someone who may be a nominee here?
BORK: Yes. It turns out it's really useful to be able to say that you can't answer that question because it may come before you on the court.
(LAUGHTER)
LEMON: Hey, that -- that -- short, sweet and practical, and some great advice.
Robert Bork, thank you so much. We appreciate it. Best of luck to you, OK?
BORK: Sure thing.
LEMON: Thank you.
David Gergen, as always, we appreciate it.
Wasn't that -- that was quite a treat, wasn't it, David?
GERGEN: Yes, it's good, Don.
LEMON: Yes.
GERGEN: Thank you for -- for asking me to join with the two of you.
LEMON: Yes. All right. Thank you.
GERGEN: Take care.
LEMON: I will talk to you soon.